Dr. Gaty, thank you so much for doing your job in reading the research in regards and making informed decisions and recommendations regarding the best interest of the whole child. You are a fine doctor.
"So, in closing, I just want to urge you, please, do make the most of it. I want you to go out there and get somebody pregnant. We all know that the only difference between crazy and eccentric is money; I am here to tell you that the only difference between a restraining order and an afternoon quickie is a Harvard Degree. Don’t let me hog all of your stories – get out there and make some babies!"
Facial recognition is very important for social development. A majority of that social development during these critical 5 years comes from direct household members. There are many cultures/religions who mask and face cover in public, have done so for centuries and their children are not suffering from lack of social skills or development. We do know that masks work at preventing infection and the new delta variant is effecting children and resulting in death in some cases. While I appreciate you trying to advocate for your patients, to advocate against masks when there is a virus devastating this country is not doing your due diligence for your youngest population.
As a fellow pediatrician I recommend a mask while indoors in close crowded environments when distancing cannot be avoided. Nobody is recommending masking 24/7 for our babies. My children mask, are very good at doing so and get lots of Face time and social interaction from their mom and are still able to interact with children outside in a safe environment
Thank you kindly for your thoughtful and learned reply, I appreciate it!
Before med school, I studied history and literature and have done some traveling. Sounds like you have, too! Can you please tell us more about these many cultures around the world that routinely cover their smiles when teaching their young? I never encountered this in Europe, South or Central America, Asia, or Africa. Where have you seen it? If you do have a top 5 list of countries where it's the norm, have you checked their ranking when it comes to childhood education outcomes? I'd love to know. You're not talking about hijabs, are you? I'm sure in your travels you've noticed these do not cover the face. Or are you referring to the full face covering burqa? My understanding, talking with my more conservative Muslim friends, is that such full face coverings are only mandatory in those societies when around adult men, and so, women teachers teaching kids, for example, would not wear them. Have you experienced otherwise? True, I've heard some news about the Taliban always forcing women to be covered, but my understanding is that that was one of the reasons why so many American soldiers died over there these past couple decades... to build and run schools for the local girls, who were apparently not getting educated well enough, what with all the face-masks that used to be on their teachers.
In what sense do you think we know that masks work at preventing respiratory viral infection in children? Do you disagree with the results of the huge CDC study linked above?
Where do you find the data showing that the delta variant is more dangerous to children? In the UK, it actually seems to be less dangerous than the alpha variant. The latest UK government briefing, from August 20th, revealed a delta CFR in the under 50 age group of 0.03%, which you no doubt can spot is half the 0.06% CFR in that age group for alpha. Do you think American children have a different biology than British children?
In your experience as a pediatrician, have you seen more severely ill/hospitalized/dead toddlers from Covid, or from RSV? For me, though I've only been doing this for a few years, I have to admit it's RSV by a mile! Your experience is probably the same... in which case, have you typically made it a point every RSV season the past 4-5 years or so to call for universal masking of toddlers and their teachers? If not, why not? Did you not care about their lives? Did you not know face masks were widely available in all sizes even before this past year?
Thank you for your time and your experience! One last question: considering that it sounds like children under 5 get all the socialization and development they need from immediate household members, do you think we should abolish daycares and preschools, and oppose any universal early childhood education measures? It sounds like these institutions are a big waste, considering how well toddlers can develop without them! All my best to you and your kids!
Thank you for your input. I’m sure there is some validity towards your argument but if you worked in a pediatric emergency room and saw children and parents with fear and tears in their eyes bc of covid, trying to reassure them their child is going to be okay and then seeing they are intubated and/or on pressors within a day, you may have a different perspective. I have personally dealt with it, and unfortunately am seeing it getting worse. Rsv is just as horrible a virus, but as far as I have seen, at least spares our young adults (which Covid does not) and then we also have secondary complications of Covid like MISC which can be long lasting. Just try and leverage separate realities before you make a blanketed statement that could also potentially be harmful for those trusting your specialist opinion.
Thank you for your comment and your passionate dedication to your patients.
I in no way want to dismiss your efforts, but I would for the record like to highlight your argument above as precisely the thing that has been driving me crazy about our society's response to covid the past year.
You acknowledge that RSV is "just as horrible" though I'm sure you understand that it, and the flu, are indeed both far far worse and more dangerous for our babies, our youngest and most vulnerable population. Every year, in a fairly predictable pattern, we have tragic RSV and flu surges that lead to lots of intubations and deaths for our babies... this is generally known as "winter." So, think about it, every winter for the past 10, 20, 30, 40 years, every single winter, we've had tons of our youngest children tragically dying from these illnesses. And yet, despite that, society never got shut down! We never went into "lockdown" to protect our youngest. We never forced toddlers to wear masks to save their own lives. Why not? Because, as you admit above, it only killed babies! Adults were safe. And our twisted society apparently has no problem with countless babies dying as long as it doesn't threaten adults. But this year we have an amazing case study in the precise opposite: a dangerous virus spreading, leading to intubations and deaths, but one that miraculously, thankfully almost overwhelmingly spares our babies and threatens only adults. In this case, have we as a society been as cavalier about viral infection and death as we have for decades past? Heck no! When adults, and not kids, are in the crosshairs, it's all hands on deck, lock everything down, force everyone to wear masks!
Don't you think that's a little... upside down? Generally speaking, the healthy societies I know of do everything they can to sacrifice for and protect their children. It's the unhealthy, evil ones that have embraced sacrificing children for their own purposes.
One of the reasons I've been so outspoken about this for the past year is that it is yet another sign of our anti-child society. We are growing increasingly childless, anyone with young children navigating the world the past few years knows that there are more and more no-child-allowed zones. Instead of sacrificing ourselves for our children, which is practically the whole point of civilization, we are demanding more and more that our children sacrifice themselves for us.
Is it because children are too young to vote, and so don't need to be courted as a voting bloc? Is it because they're too little to go to school board meetings and shout? It it because they're so weak and tiny that they can't fight back? Is it because they don't have a union? I don't know. All I know is that the very fact they are so small, so vulnerable, so dependent on us, is the exact reason why we ought to fight all the harder for them! Them before us, every single time.
I know that's a long comment and perhaps too deep for this thread and debate, but it just really gets to me, and it seemed perfectly encapsulated by your approach. In the days when the Titanic sank, we still had our heads on right, and the children were the first to be placed into the lifeboats. It seems that if that tragedy were replicated in our society today, the adults would be tossing the babies to the waves and pushing all the toddlers out of the way to get on the raft. It's just sad, and I for one will never go along with it.
As for your other comment, I would just advise you not to argue with anecdotal emotionalism, since it tends to obscure matters. The most harrowing pediatric death I've ever witnessed was related to a farming accident; as awful as it was, I would never invoke it to ban farming, because, come on. I'm sure in the ER you've dealt with lots of suicides, as have I, and we can all exchange stories of how emotionally draining, traumatic, and horrific child suicide is to everyone in the family and community. You no doubt know that suicides, attempts, and just general mental health struggles have skyrocketed for our kids since lockdown/masking began, killing far more healthy kids than the virus has. How many suicides, then, are you willing to accept, from children and teens who are having their entire lives shut down over a virus that poses almost no harm to them? Does the answer depend on whether you personally were present for their intubation?
That's my best attempt to separate leveraged realities, er, I mean, leverage separate realities; thanks for your time and patience!
Lol. Check on those child labor laws, as wells as the specialty of pediatrics in comparison to Titanic sinking 1912. Closing schools at the outset of a pandemic when we knew nothing about spread is akin to life boats if you’re making comparisons. I’ll take slightly delayed norms for this generation over illness, hospitalizations, and long term effects of virus any day, similarly to what I tell patients concerned about vaccinating their babies from long term effects of preventable illnesses.
Thank you for writing this Dr. Gaty. Our family is very thankful for you and this practice!
We are so grateful to have you as our pediatrician, Dr Gaty! Thank you for speaking with logic and fact on this very emotionally charged topic
Thank you for writing this and so grateful to have you as our new pediatrician!
So thankful to have you as our children’s pediatrician!!
Thanks for wing a breath of fresh, truthful air. So proud of you.
Dr. Gaty, thank you so much for doing your job in reading the research in regards and making informed decisions and recommendations regarding the best interest of the whole child. You are a fine doctor.
Thanks, mom!
"So, in closing, I just want to urge you, please, do make the most of it. I want you to go out there and get somebody pregnant. We all know that the only difference between crazy and eccentric is money; I am here to tell you that the only difference between a restraining order and an afternoon quickie is a Harvard Degree. Don’t let me hog all of your stories – get out there and make some babies!"
A bit off topic, but great point. Babies rock! Do try to go make as many as you can! Just remember: once you've made 'em, don't mask 'em!
Dr Gaty,
Facial recognition is very important for social development. A majority of that social development during these critical 5 years comes from direct household members. There are many cultures/religions who mask and face cover in public, have done so for centuries and their children are not suffering from lack of social skills or development. We do know that masks work at preventing infection and the new delta variant is effecting children and resulting in death in some cases. While I appreciate you trying to advocate for your patients, to advocate against masks when there is a virus devastating this country is not doing your due diligence for your youngest population.
As a fellow pediatrician I recommend a mask while indoors in close crowded environments when distancing cannot be avoided. Nobody is recommending masking 24/7 for our babies. My children mask, are very good at doing so and get lots of Face time and social interaction from their mom and are still able to interact with children outside in a safe environment
Sincerely,
Dr. Jackson
Dear Dr. Jackson,
Thank you kindly for your thoughtful and learned reply, I appreciate it!
Before med school, I studied history and literature and have done some traveling. Sounds like you have, too! Can you please tell us more about these many cultures around the world that routinely cover their smiles when teaching their young? I never encountered this in Europe, South or Central America, Asia, or Africa. Where have you seen it? If you do have a top 5 list of countries where it's the norm, have you checked their ranking when it comes to childhood education outcomes? I'd love to know. You're not talking about hijabs, are you? I'm sure in your travels you've noticed these do not cover the face. Or are you referring to the full face covering burqa? My understanding, talking with my more conservative Muslim friends, is that such full face coverings are only mandatory in those societies when around adult men, and so, women teachers teaching kids, for example, would not wear them. Have you experienced otherwise? True, I've heard some news about the Taliban always forcing women to be covered, but my understanding is that that was one of the reasons why so many American soldiers died over there these past couple decades... to build and run schools for the local girls, who were apparently not getting educated well enough, what with all the face-masks that used to be on their teachers.
In what sense do you think we know that masks work at preventing respiratory viral infection in children? Do you disagree with the results of the huge CDC study linked above?
Where do you find the data showing that the delta variant is more dangerous to children? In the UK, it actually seems to be less dangerous than the alpha variant. The latest UK government briefing, from August 20th, revealed a delta CFR in the under 50 age group of 0.03%, which you no doubt can spot is half the 0.06% CFR in that age group for alpha. Do you think American children have a different biology than British children?
In your experience as a pediatrician, have you seen more severely ill/hospitalized/dead toddlers from Covid, or from RSV? For me, though I've only been doing this for a few years, I have to admit it's RSV by a mile! Your experience is probably the same... in which case, have you typically made it a point every RSV season the past 4-5 years or so to call for universal masking of toddlers and their teachers? If not, why not? Did you not care about their lives? Did you not know face masks were widely available in all sizes even before this past year?
Thank you for your time and your experience! One last question: considering that it sounds like children under 5 get all the socialization and development they need from immediate household members, do you think we should abolish daycares and preschools, and oppose any universal early childhood education measures? It sounds like these institutions are a big waste, considering how well toddlers can develop without them! All my best to you and your kids!
Dr.Gaty,
Thank you for your input. I’m sure there is some validity towards your argument but if you worked in a pediatric emergency room and saw children and parents with fear and tears in their eyes bc of covid, trying to reassure them their child is going to be okay and then seeing they are intubated and/or on pressors within a day, you may have a different perspective. I have personally dealt with it, and unfortunately am seeing it getting worse. Rsv is just as horrible a virus, but as far as I have seen, at least spares our young adults (which Covid does not) and then we also have secondary complications of Covid like MISC which can be long lasting. Just try and leverage separate realities before you make a blanketed statement that could also potentially be harmful for those trusting your specialist opinion.
Dear Dr. M,
Thank you for your comment and your passionate dedication to your patients.
I in no way want to dismiss your efforts, but I would for the record like to highlight your argument above as precisely the thing that has been driving me crazy about our society's response to covid the past year.
You acknowledge that RSV is "just as horrible" though I'm sure you understand that it, and the flu, are indeed both far far worse and more dangerous for our babies, our youngest and most vulnerable population. Every year, in a fairly predictable pattern, we have tragic RSV and flu surges that lead to lots of intubations and deaths for our babies... this is generally known as "winter." So, think about it, every winter for the past 10, 20, 30, 40 years, every single winter, we've had tons of our youngest children tragically dying from these illnesses. And yet, despite that, society never got shut down! We never went into "lockdown" to protect our youngest. We never forced toddlers to wear masks to save their own lives. Why not? Because, as you admit above, it only killed babies! Adults were safe. And our twisted society apparently has no problem with countless babies dying as long as it doesn't threaten adults. But this year we have an amazing case study in the precise opposite: a dangerous virus spreading, leading to intubations and deaths, but one that miraculously, thankfully almost overwhelmingly spares our babies and threatens only adults. In this case, have we as a society been as cavalier about viral infection and death as we have for decades past? Heck no! When adults, and not kids, are in the crosshairs, it's all hands on deck, lock everything down, force everyone to wear masks!
Don't you think that's a little... upside down? Generally speaking, the healthy societies I know of do everything they can to sacrifice for and protect their children. It's the unhealthy, evil ones that have embraced sacrificing children for their own purposes.
One of the reasons I've been so outspoken about this for the past year is that it is yet another sign of our anti-child society. We are growing increasingly childless, anyone with young children navigating the world the past few years knows that there are more and more no-child-allowed zones. Instead of sacrificing ourselves for our children, which is practically the whole point of civilization, we are demanding more and more that our children sacrifice themselves for us.
Is it because children are too young to vote, and so don't need to be courted as a voting bloc? Is it because they're too little to go to school board meetings and shout? It it because they're so weak and tiny that they can't fight back? Is it because they don't have a union? I don't know. All I know is that the very fact they are so small, so vulnerable, so dependent on us, is the exact reason why we ought to fight all the harder for them! Them before us, every single time.
I know that's a long comment and perhaps too deep for this thread and debate, but it just really gets to me, and it seemed perfectly encapsulated by your approach. In the days when the Titanic sank, we still had our heads on right, and the children were the first to be placed into the lifeboats. It seems that if that tragedy were replicated in our society today, the adults would be tossing the babies to the waves and pushing all the toddlers out of the way to get on the raft. It's just sad, and I for one will never go along with it.
As for your other comment, I would just advise you not to argue with anecdotal emotionalism, since it tends to obscure matters. The most harrowing pediatric death I've ever witnessed was related to a farming accident; as awful as it was, I would never invoke it to ban farming, because, come on. I'm sure in the ER you've dealt with lots of suicides, as have I, and we can all exchange stories of how emotionally draining, traumatic, and horrific child suicide is to everyone in the family and community. You no doubt know that suicides, attempts, and just general mental health struggles have skyrocketed for our kids since lockdown/masking began, killing far more healthy kids than the virus has. How many suicides, then, are you willing to accept, from children and teens who are having their entire lives shut down over a virus that poses almost no harm to them? Does the answer depend on whether you personally were present for their intubation?
That's my best attempt to separate leveraged realities, er, I mean, leverage separate realities; thanks for your time and patience!
Lol. Check on those child labor laws, as wells as the specialty of pediatrics in comparison to Titanic sinking 1912. Closing schools at the outset of a pandemic when we knew nothing about spread is akin to life boats if you’re making comparisons. I’ll take slightly delayed norms for this generation over illness, hospitalizations, and long term effects of virus any day, similarly to what I tell patients concerned about vaccinating their babies from long term effects of preventable illnesses.
Discussion of this sort is vital, however I don't see that you addressed any of the specific questions that Dr Gaty asked.